Jeffery Halstrom was fighting for his life, while Cardiologist Dr. Michael Kutryk, had been stopped and was receiving a ticket for speeding.
This has opened up a can of worms. Â Luckily, in the end, Halstrom survived, and Dr. Kutryk plans on fighting the $300 ticket he received for going 35 km/h over the posted 40 km/h speed limit.
This obviously begs the question to be asked? Â Should doctors have special privileges when travelling to a hospital for an emergency surgery? Â Should they have special license plates? Â A portable flashing light? Â If you think so, what about the liability if the doctor crashes, causes an accident, or what defines an “emergency surgery?”
All things to think about as this case goes before the courts.
Ryan Venables is a third year law student at the University of Western Ontario. He holds B.A. (2001) from the University of Western Ontario in Political Science and Sociology. Ryan was also enrolled in a M.A.- Journalism at the University of Western Ontario before withdrawing to attend law school. Before pursuing a formal education in law, Ryan served with the York Regional Police as a police officer for five years specializing in organized crime. He also served in the Special Investigations Section with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for two years. His legal interests include employment/labour, criminal, family, and human rights law.
When Ryan is done law school he will be articling with Ross & McBride LLP in Hamilton, Ontario.
16 Commentson "Doctor Saves Life, But Gets a Speeding Ticket…"
Here in the UK doctors registered with the General Medical Council can display a green flashing light on their cars while en-route to a job. Doctors working alongside the Ambulance Service can have a blue light and the privileges that come with that.
Physicians should be held to the same level of esteem and treated the same as EMT’s firefighters and police. Would a police officer ever pull over a fire truck?
The police officer who pulled over Dr. Kutryk should be reprimanded for not providing the physician an escort to the hospital. How would that officer feel if it had been a member of their family waiting for a doctor? The officer further endangered Jeffery Halstrom’s life by unnecessarily delaying medical care. Which, in Canada, is an essential service.
Give the doctors special lights and sirens on their cars and stop criticizing them because they’re under appreciated for saving lives! Or should we pull over the doctors and just let the unlucky people die?
there will always be people who support other people who do the wrong thing wether it is out of bitterness or ignorance. that having been said, the cop was not using his / her discretion. that’s wrong. ambulances, fire trucks, and police cars speed. sometimes accidents occur from this, most times not. do you want this to stop? i would think not. in this case it was appropriate for the doctor to speed. the only way a cop like this can ever learn is if they later learn that the doctor who was speeding was rushing to save a close friend or relative of the cop and that because of the delay, the close friend or relative died. sad but true.
“Physicians should be held to the same level of esteem and treated the same as EMT’s firefighters and police.”
Diane – Are you suggesting doctors drive massive emergency vehicles with bright flashing lights and sirens?
How was this lone police officer supposed to know that the doctor actually was a doctor? I’m sure people try to get out of tickets all the time making up excuses like that.
A police escort would have been nice, but what if there’s some major accident that requires the policeman’s attention? Then you’re going to be complaining that we’re wasting money having policemen that are in uniform and on patrol escorting doctors for who-knows-what kind of ’emergency.’
If something like what Oliver says they have in the UK doesn’t work here, why not have the Hospital contact the dispatch for the police and alert them that there’s an emergency at the hosiptal for which a doctor has to come to the hospital and may need to hurry because the patient could die if he’s not there in time?
That takes one call from the hospital to the dispatch, and then dispatch lets every single patrol car on the road know that a doctor is travelling from point A to point B and is driving this kind of car, and if you see him and are available to – give him an escort to the hospital, or at the very least don’t pull him over.
I think I’ll weigh in now with my opinion. I unfortunately can now understand both sides of the story. As the police officer, and as a desperate relative racing to the hospital before a loved one passed away.
As the black letter of the law goes, the doctor is guilty, and I would be surprised to see the ticket be thrown out. I can see a very empathic Justice of the Peace reducing the speed to something nominal, but we will wait to see how that unfolds. I know I am curious.
Doctors should not get any lights or sirens or anything along those lines. Police, Fire, and EMS all receive highly intensive driving instruction for those times when they need to respond to a call with their emergency equipment activated. The same standard would need to be in place for doctors. Furthermore, the vehicle they drive would need to be a hospital vehicle and maintained by the hospital to reduce liability. Logistically, I cannot see either one of these happening.
Perhaps a more appropriate response would be some sort of a partnership that would allow for an emergency call to be placed to the police, and should an officer be available, or be able to be cleared from a call, the officer would pick up the doctor, and take them to the hospital.
Or an even better solution is to have a system in place where an on call specialist be no more than a certain distance or time away from the hospital during their shifts.
When I was in our Public Order Unit (Riot Squad) and I was on call, I was expected to be fit for duty and to show up ready for whatever detail that I be assigned. That meant no drinking, proper rest, fed, etc. The same should be in place for doctors.
I agree that perhaps discretion was not used appropriately. I personally never had anybody attempt to give me any wild stories when I pulled them over… and I pulled thousands of people over during my career. Furthermore, one would reasonably assume that a doctor would have at the bare minimum a business card with their credentials on them at the time of their trip to the hospital, and more reasonably hospital identification.
If you think that poor discretion was used in this incident, here are two more. Where sadly, a person died each time:
It all depends if they have the ability to drive professionally under pressure at high speeds to get to the hospital.. It all depends, this would endanger many lives on the way to the hospital as well. Tough toss up.
I think an actual live emergency should trump a hypothetical car accident involving the doctor. What-ifs should NOT even be on the table when discussing a case like this. Very poor show on the side of the police.
In our place, traffic cops are more linient with doctors on emergency calls. Personally, I think that doctors should be given privileges similar to law enforcers and emergency responders. Their car should be equipped with beacons so that other vehicles would be warned while they are speeding up in the highway. On emergency situations, it is necessary for them to come on time. What if its our love one waiting for the doctor.
For doctors travelling in other countries or far states, let the guys from medical alliance take care of your travel concerns.
I agree that they should have the ability to speed to get to the hospital, and to have the siren on board to do so. I also agree they should be trained in the same way as fire rescue, emt’s, and police are trained. They should also gave a different color light to symbolize that they are a doctor. Considering this would only affect surgeons, and they spend up to 8 years in residency I am completely confident they would have the free time for a class to give them the skill they need over that time, not to mention I’m also sure they would love to take the class to have an additional edge to save a life. Think of how stressed they could be sitting at rush hour traffic, at a light knowing someone is dying. That has to be far worse to them than we can even imagine. We should have them in a perfect frame of mind and timely when getting ready to save our lives.
It’s disturbing to find that people her have no empathy. Doctors are far better trained, and more knowledgeable than emt’s , doctors, and policemen at diagnosing individuals. The penalty should not be enforced for doctors with a legitimate need to get to the er in leiu of a patient with a life ending/changing condition.
The answer to all of this is simple. The officers should escort the doctor with lights and sirens on. If the doctor was found to have abused this privilege, they should be charged with failure to pull over, failure to reduce speed, reckless driving, and reckless endangerment. Also, the doctor could face reprimand and or punishment by the medical licensure. He should be suspended or lose privileges or credentials if found to be abusing this power.
It’s simple: give them the benefit of the doubt, and if they abuse, prosecute ten times as hard as for the original offense.
Of course a Doctor would never have the intelligence to drive a car with flashing lights and siren. What a ridiculous suggestion, considering most local police officers were lucky to graduate high school! Or how about the volunteer firemen and fire police guys who drive 30mph over the speed limit with flashing red lights in their personal vehicles when responding to direct traffic.
I am a physician. Just recently I was a first responder on the scene of an accident. I identified myself to the police officer as a doctor and said I could help. He said “Don’t worry, we have an off duty EMT”. This sums up the naivety and ridiculous attitude that permeates the Police/EMS/Fire communities out there.
James, think of the logistics of having an on duty police officer getting dispatched to a physician’s residence, and then escorting them to the hospital. Is this not why hospitals have physicians on call and working during the night?
Rob, wow is all I can really say… I would hate to live where you live, but I would suggest to you that here in Ontario 95%+ have at least a college diploma, and I think the latests stats were that about 40% have university degrees. Also, I’m going to assume that you’re from the US. In Canada, our volunteer fire fighters have green lights in their personal vehicles and are bound by ALL HTA laws. As a physician you were a first responder? I think you mean that you were the first person on the scene. A first responder, as a physician I would think you would know the difference between a first responder (police/fire/ems) and being first on scene to an accident.
Either way, I hope you were able to help out. If not, I hope the experience does not cause you simply to drive by the next scene that may actually require your help.
I have to laugh at the people who think police, EMS, and fire go through “extensive” training to drive emergency vehicles. Its a weekend course, in some places week long, but its not “extensive”, and physicians could easily take the same course. Not all physicians would need to (only emergency, critical care, interventionalists, etc.). And it happens every day, so its not realistic to have the hospital call such as suggested. Seriously…I could drive a fire truck at age 18 after a 3 day course, you really think physicians couldn’t? Come on.
I am a Board Certified neurologist, a physician (MD) scientist (PHD, pharmacology) with particular interest in stroke treatment, and research. The only hospital in our area requires that all staff physicians reside within a 35 mile perimeter of the hospital. I personally reside 20 miles from the hospital. Most neurologists are not required to present emergently, in contrast to cardiologists and certain other specialists. However, in 1995 the FDA approved the use of tissue plasminogen activator (TPA) in acute non-hemorhagic stroke, providing that it is administered within 3 hours of symptom onset (peripheral IV administration). It turns out that most patients with stroke don’t even present to the hospital until approximately 2 hours have elapsed. A CT must be obtained to rule out hemorrhage and a multitude of other factors considered before it can be deemed the patient is a candidate for TPA (a “clot dissolver”). Ideally, the neurologist should be called the instant the stroke patient enters the ER. Unfortunately, that isn’t common practice. In fact, many ER physicians in the US have a nihilistic attitude concerning the use of TPA in acute stroke. This likely explains the sluggish response on ther part to timely notify the neurologist on call.
Suffice it to say that we stroke neurologists are often notified with no more than 30 to 40 minutes remaining in the window of opportunity for TPA administration. Thus, we speed.
I was the first to use TPA for this indication in my state, and used more of it than all other hospitals and physicians combined for at least the first year after FDA approval. This comes from Genentec who kept records of use. Dozens of lives have been saved, or quality of life preserved.
I have only had one bad experience with a sheriff who seemed to have an attitude, and detained me for a seemingly unnecessary period of time. Previously he had been terminated on moral grounds from the local PD but unfortunately the County Sheriff’s office hired him. I have been stopped on several other occasions, but the officer upon seeing my black bag or stethoscope courtesiously advised me to drive the legal speed, and he/she then turned around and went in the oposite direction.
The solution is simple, and it is my design to introduce legislation through my local congressman to implement the solution. First, the physician be required to receive the same driving training as required for police, etc. Second, the physician must use only one vehicle, and that vehicle must have undergone a thorough inspection and approved for worthiness for intended purpose. A specific vehicle may be required. Third, lights, siren, and dispatch radio installed and physician trained in its use. Fourth, and last, the physician must have an umbrella or equivalent insurance policy to cover damages from any mishap. In reality most of us drive no more than 5 mph over on the highway; it is the traffic congestion in metropolotin areas that is much more problematic.
Now, having said all of the above, the “catcher” is that the hospital would have to pay for your training, bringing your vehicle into compliance, the paraphanilia, and the insurance. Most hospitals will balk on first site. But when presented with statistics that will most certainly convince their CEO of the beneficial impact this will have on their hospital, in all measurable ways, they will likely agree.
This is important because even though stroke is only the 3rd leading cause of death, it is by far the most costly event to be incurred by the health care system. Surprisingly, considering direct and indirect costs, stroke easily accounts for over 2/3 of the health care dollar.
I do not propose that the above opportunity be granted to all physicians. The physician in concert with the hospital would need to provide evidence for critical need for such urgent services. Certainly most cardiologists and surgeons would likewise be certified.
While I was attending police college, we were in PVO, Police Vehicle Operations for a period of 3 months. This was a course that was taken multiple times a week for a period of three months. There were numerous tests as well as a pursuit driving test. I also have no experience in the extent of the training for Fire or EMS.
I’m not saying that physicians could not learn this. In fact, most people with the proper training, could pass it. However, many could not. It is probably the most failed course at the Ontario Police College. I think the crux of the arguments is that it is impractical and quite unrealistic for physicians to obtain the sort of exemption needed to pursue this any further. The logistics alone would prevent it from ever occurring.
What a fu***** moron. That fat piggy cop should get canned and hated on by the community until he moves away in shame and disgrace along with his family who hate him as well.
Here in the UK doctors registered with the General Medical Council can display a green flashing light on their cars while en-route to a job. Doctors working alongside the Ambulance Service can have a blue light and the privileges that come with that.
Physicians should be held to the same level of esteem and treated the same as EMT’s firefighters and police. Would a police officer ever pull over a fire truck?
The police officer who pulled over Dr. Kutryk should be reprimanded for not providing the physician an escort to the hospital. How would that officer feel if it had been a member of their family waiting for a doctor? The officer further endangered Jeffery Halstrom’s life by unnecessarily delaying medical care. Which, in Canada, is an essential service.
Give the doctors special lights and sirens on their cars and stop criticizing them because they’re under appreciated for saving lives! Or should we pull over the doctors and just let the unlucky people die?
there will always be people who support other people who do the wrong thing wether it is out of bitterness or ignorance. that having been said, the cop was not using his / her discretion. that’s wrong. ambulances, fire trucks, and police cars speed. sometimes accidents occur from this, most times not. do you want this to stop? i would think not. in this case it was appropriate for the doctor to speed. the only way a cop like this can ever learn is if they later learn that the doctor who was speeding was rushing to save a close friend or relative of the cop and that because of the delay, the close friend or relative died. sad but true.
“Physicians should be held to the same level of esteem and treated the same as EMT’s firefighters and police.”
Diane – Are you suggesting doctors drive massive emergency vehicles with bright flashing lights and sirens?
How was this lone police officer supposed to know that the doctor actually was a doctor? I’m sure people try to get out of tickets all the time making up excuses like that.
A police escort would have been nice, but what if there’s some major accident that requires the policeman’s attention? Then you’re going to be complaining that we’re wasting money having policemen that are in uniform and on patrol escorting doctors for who-knows-what kind of ’emergency.’
If something like what Oliver says they have in the UK doesn’t work here, why not have the Hospital contact the dispatch for the police and alert them that there’s an emergency at the hosiptal for which a doctor has to come to the hospital and may need to hurry because the patient could die if he’s not there in time?
That takes one call from the hospital to the dispatch, and then dispatch lets every single patrol car on the road know that a doctor is travelling from point A to point B and is driving this kind of car, and if you see him and are available to – give him an escort to the hospital, or at the very least don’t pull him over.
I think I’ll weigh in now with my opinion. I unfortunately can now understand both sides of the story. As the police officer, and as a desperate relative racing to the hospital before a loved one passed away.
As the black letter of the law goes, the doctor is guilty, and I would be surprised to see the ticket be thrown out. I can see a very empathic Justice of the Peace reducing the speed to something nominal, but we will wait to see how that unfolds. I know I am curious.
Doctors should not get any lights or sirens or anything along those lines. Police, Fire, and EMS all receive highly intensive driving instruction for those times when they need to respond to a call with their emergency equipment activated. The same standard would need to be in place for doctors. Furthermore, the vehicle they drive would need to be a hospital vehicle and maintained by the hospital to reduce liability. Logistically, I cannot see either one of these happening.
Perhaps a more appropriate response would be some sort of a partnership that would allow for an emergency call to be placed to the police, and should an officer be available, or be able to be cleared from a call, the officer would pick up the doctor, and take them to the hospital.
Or an even better solution is to have a system in place where an on call specialist be no more than a certain distance or time away from the hospital during their shifts.
When I was in our Public Order Unit (Riot Squad) and I was on call, I was expected to be fit for duty and to show up ready for whatever detail that I be assigned. That meant no drinking, proper rest, fed, etc. The same should be in place for doctors.
I agree that perhaps discretion was not used appropriately. I personally never had anybody attempt to give me any wild stories when I pulled them over… and I pulled thousands of people over during my career. Furthermore, one would reasonably assume that a doctor would have at the bare minimum a business card with their credentials on them at the time of their trip to the hospital, and more reasonably hospital identification.
If you think that poor discretion was used in this incident, here are two more. Where sadly, a person died each time:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/2009-03-26-moats-dispute_N.htm
http://www.noob.us/miscellaneous/woman-dies-while-cop-writes-ticket/
It all depends if they have the ability to drive professionally under pressure at high speeds to get to the hospital.. It all depends, this would endanger many lives on the way to the hospital as well. Tough toss up.
I think an actual live emergency should trump a hypothetical car accident involving the doctor. What-ifs should NOT even be on the table when discussing a case like this. Very poor show on the side of the police.
In our place, traffic cops are more linient with doctors on emergency calls. Personally, I think that doctors should be given privileges similar to law enforcers and emergency responders. Their car should be equipped with beacons so that other vehicles would be warned while they are speeding up in the highway. On emergency situations, it is necessary for them to come on time. What if its our love one waiting for the doctor.
For doctors travelling in other countries or far states, let the guys from medical alliance take care of your travel concerns.
I agree that they should have the ability to speed to get to the hospital, and to have the siren on board to do so. I also agree they should be trained in the same way as fire rescue, emt’s, and police are trained. They should also gave a different color light to symbolize that they are a doctor. Considering this would only affect surgeons, and they spend up to 8 years in residency I am completely confident they would have the free time for a class to give them the skill they need over that time, not to mention I’m also sure they would love to take the class to have an additional edge to save a life. Think of how stressed they could be sitting at rush hour traffic, at a light knowing someone is dying. That has to be far worse to them than we can even imagine. We should have them in a perfect frame of mind and timely when getting ready to save our lives.
It’s disturbing to find that people her have no empathy. Doctors are far better trained, and more knowledgeable than emt’s , doctors, and policemen at diagnosing individuals. The penalty should not be enforced for doctors with a legitimate need to get to the er in leiu of a patient with a life ending/changing condition.
The answer to all of this is simple. The officers should escort the doctor with lights and sirens on. If the doctor was found to have abused this privilege, they should be charged with failure to pull over, failure to reduce speed, reckless driving, and reckless endangerment. Also, the doctor could face reprimand and or punishment by the medical licensure. He should be suspended or lose privileges or credentials if found to be abusing this power.
It’s simple: give them the benefit of the doubt, and if they abuse, prosecute ten times as hard as for the original offense.
Of course a Doctor would never have the intelligence to drive a car with flashing lights and siren. What a ridiculous suggestion, considering most local police officers were lucky to graduate high school! Or how about the volunteer firemen and fire police guys who drive 30mph over the speed limit with flashing red lights in their personal vehicles when responding to direct traffic.
I am a physician. Just recently I was a first responder on the scene of an accident. I identified myself to the police officer as a doctor and said I could help. He said “Don’t worry, we have an off duty EMT”. This sums up the naivety and ridiculous attitude that permeates the Police/EMS/Fire communities out there.
James, think of the logistics of having an on duty police officer getting dispatched to a physician’s residence, and then escorting them to the hospital. Is this not why hospitals have physicians on call and working during the night?
Rob, wow is all I can really say… I would hate to live where you live, but I would suggest to you that here in Ontario 95%+ have at least a college diploma, and I think the latests stats were that about 40% have university degrees. Also, I’m going to assume that you’re from the US. In Canada, our volunteer fire fighters have green lights in their personal vehicles and are bound by ALL HTA laws. As a physician you were a first responder? I think you mean that you were the first person on the scene. A first responder, as a physician I would think you would know the difference between a first responder (police/fire/ems) and being first on scene to an accident.
Either way, I hope you were able to help out. If not, I hope the experience does not cause you simply to drive by the next scene that may actually require your help.
I have to laugh at the people who think police, EMS, and fire go through “extensive” training to drive emergency vehicles. Its a weekend course, in some places week long, but its not “extensive”, and physicians could easily take the same course. Not all physicians would need to (only emergency, critical care, interventionalists, etc.). And it happens every day, so its not realistic to have the hospital call such as suggested. Seriously…I could drive a fire truck at age 18 after a 3 day course, you really think physicians couldn’t? Come on.
I am a Board Certified neurologist, a physician (MD) scientist (PHD, pharmacology) with particular interest in stroke treatment, and research. The only hospital in our area requires that all staff physicians reside within a 35 mile perimeter of the hospital. I personally reside 20 miles from the hospital. Most neurologists are not required to present emergently, in contrast to cardiologists and certain other specialists. However, in 1995 the FDA approved the use of tissue plasminogen activator (TPA) in acute non-hemorhagic stroke, providing that it is administered within 3 hours of symptom onset (peripheral IV administration). It turns out that most patients with stroke don’t even present to the hospital until approximately 2 hours have elapsed. A CT must be obtained to rule out hemorrhage and a multitude of other factors considered before it can be deemed the patient is a candidate for TPA (a “clot dissolver”). Ideally, the neurologist should be called the instant the stroke patient enters the ER. Unfortunately, that isn’t common practice. In fact, many ER physicians in the US have a nihilistic attitude concerning the use of TPA in acute stroke. This likely explains the sluggish response on ther part to timely notify the neurologist on call.
Suffice it to say that we stroke neurologists are often notified with no more than 30 to 40 minutes remaining in the window of opportunity for TPA administration. Thus, we speed.
I was the first to use TPA for this indication in my state, and used more of it than all other hospitals and physicians combined for at least the first year after FDA approval. This comes from Genentec who kept records of use. Dozens of lives have been saved, or quality of life preserved.
I have only had one bad experience with a sheriff who seemed to have an attitude, and detained me for a seemingly unnecessary period of time. Previously he had been terminated on moral grounds from the local PD but unfortunately the County Sheriff’s office hired him. I have been stopped on several other occasions, but the officer upon seeing my black bag or stethoscope courtesiously advised me to drive the legal speed, and he/she then turned around and went in the oposite direction.
The solution is simple, and it is my design to introduce legislation through my local congressman to implement the solution. First, the physician be required to receive the same driving training as required for police, etc. Second, the physician must use only one vehicle, and that vehicle must have undergone a thorough inspection and approved for worthiness for intended purpose. A specific vehicle may be required. Third, lights, siren, and dispatch radio installed and physician trained in its use. Fourth, and last, the physician must have an umbrella or equivalent insurance policy to cover damages from any mishap. In reality most of us drive no more than 5 mph over on the highway; it is the traffic congestion in metropolotin areas that is much more problematic.
Now, having said all of the above, the “catcher” is that the hospital would have to pay for your training, bringing your vehicle into compliance, the paraphanilia, and the insurance. Most hospitals will balk on first site. But when presented with statistics that will most certainly convince their CEO of the beneficial impact this will have on their hospital, in all measurable ways, they will likely agree.
This is important because even though stroke is only the 3rd leading cause of death, it is by far the most costly event to be incurred by the health care system. Surprisingly, considering direct and indirect costs, stroke easily accounts for over 2/3 of the health care dollar.
I do not propose that the above opportunity be granted to all physicians. The physician in concert with the hospital would need to provide evidence for critical need for such urgent services. Certainly most cardiologists and surgeons would likewise be certified.
@Nathan,
While I was attending police college, we were in PVO, Police Vehicle Operations for a period of 3 months. This was a course that was taken multiple times a week for a period of three months. There were numerous tests as well as a pursuit driving test. I also have no experience in the extent of the training for Fire or EMS.
I’m not saying that physicians could not learn this. In fact, most people with the proper training, could pass it. However, many could not. It is probably the most failed course at the Ontario Police College. I think the crux of the arguments is that it is impractical and quite unrealistic for physicians to obtain the sort of exemption needed to pursue this any further. The logistics alone would prevent it from ever occurring.
What a fu***** moron. That fat piggy cop should get canned and hated on by the community until he moves away in shame and disgrace along with his family who hate him as well.
What a POS ticket dispenser.