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	<title>Comments for Law is Cool</title>
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	<link>http://lawiscool.com</link>
	<description>The law school blog and podcast from Canada</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 21:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by KC</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1534</link>
		<dc:creator>KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 17:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1534</guid>
		<description>"the public “outrage” by Steyn’s unruly fans - who hold both multiculturalism and human rights in disdain"

Thats not fair.  Certainly there is lots of that but many people who have spoken out against these complaints think the values of human rights and multiculturalism are important yet need to be more properly balanced against other values such as Mark Steyn's right to free expression, and MacLean's freedom to control its property (before you point out that private property isnt in the Charter I am aware of that, neither is human rights law--but both are firmly engrained in Canadian statutes and common law)

&lt;hr&gt;  

Law is Cool:  See above, and elsewhere on this site.  Steyn supporters have repeatedly condemned multiculturalism, minority rights, the Charter, and even Canada.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the public “outrage” by Steyn’s unruly fans - who hold both multiculturalism and human rights in disdain&#8221;</p>
<p>Thats not fair.  Certainly there is lots of that but many people who have spoken out against these complaints think the values of human rights and multiculturalism are important yet need to be more properly balanced against other values such as Mark Steyn&#8217;s right to free expression, and MacLean&#8217;s freedom to control its property (before you point out that private property isnt in the Charter I am aware of that, neither is human rights law&#8211;but both are firmly engrained in Canadian statutes and common law)</p>
<hr />
<p>Law is Cool:  See above, and elsewhere on this site.  Steyn supporters have repeatedly condemned multiculturalism, minority rights, the Charter, and even Canada.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by Eric</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 15:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1528</guid>
		<description>Private Property rights and the right to speak freely are human rights that I most certainly do not "disdain".  Criminalizing political opinions is clearly totalitarian.  I'm amazed that some can't seem to see that.  I'm appalled by what goes on at the Huffington Post, but I certainly don't believe it should be criminalized or regulated by a shady court body.  The old saying "I may not agree with what you say but I'll fight to defend your right to say it" has apparently been forgotten, at least up north.

&lt;hr&gt;

Law is Cool:
Eric, like all the other comments here, we've addressed this.
The Supreme Court of Canada specifically identified the Human Rights Commissions in &lt;em&gt;Keegstra&lt;/em&gt; as a preferable alternative to address hate speech issues to avoid its criminalization.
As for the Voltaire quote, it is frequently cited by those in power, with access and influence.  In the case of Voltaire himself, he was a rabid anti-Semite, and his works fueled pogroms across Europe.
But again, we've addressed this already on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Private Property rights and the right to speak freely are human rights that I most certainly do not &#8220;disdain&#8221;.  Criminalizing political opinions is clearly totalitarian.  I&#8217;m amazed that some can&#8217;t seem to see that.  I&#8217;m appalled by what goes on at the Huffington Post, but I certainly don&#8217;t believe it should be criminalized or regulated by a shady court body.  The old saying &#8220;I may not agree with what you say but I&#8217;ll fight to defend your right to say it&#8221; has apparently been forgotten, at least up north.</p>
<hr />
<p>Law is Cool:<br />
Eric, like all the other comments here, we&#8217;ve addressed this.<br />
The Supreme Court of Canada specifically identified the Human Rights Commissions in <em>Keegstra</em> as a preferable alternative to address hate speech issues to avoid its criminalization.<br />
As for the Voltaire quote, it is frequently cited by those in power, with access and influence.  In the case of Voltaire himself, he was a rabid anti-Semite, and his works fueled pogroms across Europe.<br />
But again, we&#8217;ve addressed this already on this site.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by Kerry</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1522</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 12:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1522</guid>
		<description>"Freedom of speech is an American concept, so I don't give it any value."  --Dean Steacy, CHRC

Nothing to see here, move along.

&lt;hr&gt;

Law is Cool:  As espoused by Steyn fans, yes.  Free speech is highly valued in Canada, within the limits the law has outlined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Freedom of speech is an American concept, so I don&#8217;t give it any value.&#8221;  &#8211;Dean Steacy, CHRC</p>
<p>Nothing to see here, move along.</p>
<hr />
<p>Law is Cool:  As espoused by Steyn fans, yes.  Free speech is highly valued in Canada, within the limits the law has outlined.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by Ben Hicks</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1521</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 12:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1521</guid>
		<description>"As we’ve stated elsewhere, the public 'outrage' by Steyn’s unruly fans - who hold both multiculturalism and human rights in disdain - only reinforces the need for this specific issue to be addressed by legal remedies."

Yep. I'm another Steyn fan. Sue me. (Hold on. You actually might...)

Frankly, when the "specific issue" to which you refer is the right of a Canadian magazine to make its own editorial decisions, I think all Canadians have a right to be outraged. Freedom of the Press is an essential part of any Free and Democratic society, and we ignore this at our peril.

I really, really hope that the Canadian "Human Rights" Commission finds Macleans guilty. With any luck, this will spark outrage accross the country and force the Canadian Parliament to get off their collective asses and put a stop to these Orwelian show trials once and for all.

&lt;hr&gt;

Law is Cool:  Hi Ben,
Basically you've repeated here what Steyn fans have said dozens of times.  No points for originality here.  
Human Rights Commissions are firmly entrenched in Canadian society, and would require a massive legal overhaul to remove them.  If anything, they have indicated that it is the values that you and your like espouse that are Orwellian and require attention.  
Even free speech has its limits - look around the site, we've address this many times over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As we’ve stated elsewhere, the public &#8216;outrage&#8217; by Steyn’s unruly fans - who hold both multiculturalism and human rights in disdain - only reinforces the need for this specific issue to be addressed by legal remedies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep. I&#8217;m another Steyn fan. Sue me. (Hold on. You actually might&#8230;)</p>
<p>Frankly, when the &#8220;specific issue&#8221; to which you refer is the right of a Canadian magazine to make its own editorial decisions, I think all Canadians have a right to be outraged. Freedom of the Press is an essential part of any Free and Democratic society, and we ignore this at our peril.</p>
<p>I really, really hope that the Canadian &#8220;Human Rights&#8221; Commission finds Macleans guilty. With any luck, this will spark outrage accross the country and force the Canadian Parliament to get off their collective asses and put a stop to these Orwelian show trials once and for all.</p>
<hr />
<p>Law is Cool:  Hi Ben,<br />
Basically you&#8217;ve repeated here what Steyn fans have said dozens of times.  No points for originality here.<br />
Human Rights Commissions are firmly entrenched in Canadian society, and would require a massive legal overhaul to remove them.  If anything, they have indicated that it is the values that you and your like espouse that are Orwellian and require attention.<br />
Even free speech has its limits - look around the site, we&#8217;ve address this many times over.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by Sav</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1519</link>
		<dc:creator>Sav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 06:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1519</guid>
		<description>Those poor "students.' So busy  they hardly have time to debate a man they've helped smear. Where's my kleenex?

Oh, I came from Steyn's blog too so I guess you expected that. You're on top of things.


&lt;hr&gt;

Law is Cool:  We are indeed.  Most human rights complaints are filed and resolved without any notice by the public or the media.  It was Mr. Steyn who brought attention to this complaint, not even filed against him personally, and made a spectacle of it.  Furthermore, the complainants have been especially reserved in any public statements about him personally.  There is no duty by complainants to  publicly debate the merits of their case or otherwise justify it to the public.

As we've stated elsewhere, the public "outrage" by Steyn's unruly fans - who hold both multiculturalism and human rights in disdain - only reinforces the need for this specific issue to be addressed by legal remedies.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those poor &#8220;students.&#8217; So busy  they hardly have time to debate a man they&#8217;ve helped smear. Where&#8217;s my kleenex?</p>
<p>Oh, I came from Steyn&#8217;s blog too so I guess you expected that. You&#8217;re on top of things.</p>
<hr />
<p>Law is Cool:  We are indeed.  Most human rights complaints are filed and resolved without any notice by the public or the media.  It was Mr. Steyn who brought attention to this complaint, not even filed against him personally, and made a spectacle of it.  Furthermore, the complainants have been especially reserved in any public statements about him personally.  There is no duty by complainants to  publicly debate the merits of their case or otherwise justify it to the public.</p>
<p>As we&#8217;ve stated elsewhere, the public &#8220;outrage&#8221; by Steyn&#8217;s unruly fans - who hold both multiculturalism and human rights in disdain - only reinforces the need for this specific issue to be addressed by legal remedies.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by Mike Baughman</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1518</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Baughman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 05:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1518</guid>
		<description>Nice try at explaining away the fact that these oh-so-busy students are not, in fact, the complainants.  Pesky habit of Mr. Steyn's, "hiding behind" those darned old facts, eh?  Unfortunately for them, the facts remain.  "If the sock fits...", as you might say.

&lt;hr&gt;

Law is Cool:  Actually, as we've repeatedly stated on this site, Steyn's facts are indeed lacking.  Unlike the individuals on this interview segment, we have repeatedly demonstrated how mistaken Steyn is, and how poor his understanding of global politics poses a dangerous threat to Canada.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice try at explaining away the fact that these oh-so-busy students are not, in fact, the complainants.  Pesky habit of Mr. Steyn&#8217;s, &#8220;hiding behind&#8221; those darned old facts, eh?  Unfortunately for them, the facts remain.  &#8220;If the sock fits&#8230;&#8221;, as you might say.</p>
<hr />
<p>Law is Cool:  Actually, as we&#8217;ve repeatedly stated on this site, Steyn&#8217;s facts are indeed lacking.  Unlike the individuals on this interview segment, we have repeatedly demonstrated how mistaken Steyn is, and how poor his understanding of global politics poses a dangerous threat to Canada.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by agnostic</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1516</link>
		<dc:creator>agnostic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 04:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1516</guid>
		<description>Law is Cool: 
What does it exactly mean that the President of the CIC filed a complaint on behalf of the students?
Isn't a complainant is the person under whose name a complaint is lodged?
Or does the complaint say "Mohamed Elmasry on behalf of Muneeza Sheikh, Naseem Mithoowani, Khurrum Awan and two others"?
If not, isn't it the case that he is the complainant and they only did some research on his behalf? And were trying to debate the issue on his behalf?

&lt;hr&gt;

Law is Cool:  It is our understanding, without having asked the complainants, that this is standard procedure for human rights complaints.  It is being filed on behalf of a national organization representing the interests of a community across Canada.  Other communities have done the same in previous complaints before the Commission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Law is Cool:<br />
What does it exactly mean that the President of the CIC filed a complaint on behalf of the students?<br />
Isn&#8217;t a complainant is the person under whose name a complaint is lodged?<br />
Or does the complaint say &#8220;Mohamed Elmasry on behalf of Muneeza Sheikh, Naseem Mithoowani, Khurrum Awan and two others&#8221;?<br />
If not, isn&#8217;t it the case that he is the complainant and they only did some research on his behalf? And were trying to debate the issue on his behalf?</p>
<hr />
<p>Law is Cool:  It is our understanding, without having asked the complainants, that this is standard procedure for human rights complaints.  It is being filed on behalf of a national organization representing the interests of a community across Canada.  Other communities have done the same in previous complaints before the Commission.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by Jen Hargrove</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1515</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen Hargrove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 03:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1515</guid>
		<description>I've read Steyn's book, so I'm biased but I was hoping for a good debate, and trying to keep an open mind. Considering that the "3 complainants" were law-grads, I was expecting them to give Steyn a real good go. (Steyn has no formal education beyond grade 11), however, the law grads didn't impress at all with their use of rhetoric, one-liners, or communications skills. Clearly, they were attempting to debate using legal jargon, and quoting supreme court decisions. However, their broader knowledge of history, culture and religion was sorely lacking. (The Ayatollah Khumeni is an obscure muslim figure????)  They couldn't respond in any meaningful way to big-picture questions. 
I would hope, for Osgood Hall's sake, that these three finished at the bottom of the "Bell Curve"- if this is Osgood Hall's finest, then Osgood has to look at its recruiting practices.

&lt;hr&gt;

Law is Cool:  The SCC decisions they quoted were in fact very relevant.   We have touched on a few of them here on this site.  
Khomeni is an obscure figure in relation to Canadian communities, and Steyn makes one of his biggest mistakes in conflating different populations around the world.
We can infer that these students in fact finished near the top of their class based on where some of them are articling/clerking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read Steyn&#8217;s book, so I&#8217;m biased but I was hoping for a good debate, and trying to keep an open mind. Considering that the &#8220;3 complainants&#8221; were law-grads, I was expecting them to give Steyn a real good go. (Steyn has no formal education beyond grade 11), however, the law grads didn&#8217;t impress at all with their use of rhetoric, one-liners, or communications skills. Clearly, they were attempting to debate using legal jargon, and quoting supreme court decisions. However, their broader knowledge of history, culture and religion was sorely lacking. (The Ayatollah Khumeni is an obscure muslim figure????)  They couldn&#8217;t respond in any meaningful way to big-picture questions.<br />
I would hope, for Osgood Hall&#8217;s sake, that these three finished at the bottom of the &#8220;Bell Curve&#8221;- if this is Osgood Hall&#8217;s finest, then Osgood has to look at its recruiting practices.</p>
<hr />
<p>Law is Cool:  The SCC decisions they quoted were in fact very relevant.   We have touched on a few of them here on this site.<br />
Khomeni is an obscure figure in relation to Canadian communities, and Steyn makes one of his biggest mistakes in conflating different populations around the world.<br />
We can infer that these students in fact finished near the top of their class based on where some of them are articling/clerking.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mark Steyn Debates Complainants by Patz</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/05/08/mark-steyn-debates-complainants/#comment-1514</link>
		<dc:creator>Patz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 03:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=431#comment-1514</guid>
		<description>It was a great live TV moment.  Mark Steyn had these three neophytes on the run from the getgo.  They were terrified and showed it. I guess they thought it would be a piece of cake and they could walk away.  Not so easy kids.  Everyone could hear them trying to recoup and chattering while he was talking.  Note to them**Shut up, you might learn something.!!
Best expression---protoTrudeaupian.
Best Advice:  Don't take on Mark Steyn and Maclean's without being more prepared. We preTrudeaupians know that Canada was much better, stronger and smarter before Trudeau.  Canadians before Trudeau knew how to live and let live. I suggest you try it.  You are the ones inflaming people. Shut up and serve Canada as most of do.

&lt;hr&gt;
Law is Cool:  We have a great deal of respect and appreciation for Trudeau here on this site, especially in relation to the &lt;em&gt;Charter&lt;/em&gt;.  There are few law students, lawyers, or civil rights advocates that would state otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a great live TV moment.  Mark Steyn had these three neophytes on the run from the getgo.  They were terrified and showed it. I guess they thought it would be a piece of cake and they could walk away.  Not so easy kids.  Everyone could hear them trying to recoup and chattering while he was talking.  Note to them**Shut up, you might learn something.!!<br />
Best expression&#8212;protoTrudeaupian.<br />
Best Advice:  Don&#8217;t take on Mark Steyn and Maclean&#8217;s without being more prepared. We preTrudeaupians know that Canada was much better, stronger and smarter before Trudeau.  Canadians before Trudeau knew how to live and let live. I suggest you try it.  You are the ones inflaming people. Shut up and serve Canada as most of do.</p>
<hr />
Law is Cool:  We have a great deal of respect and appreciation for Trudeau here on this site, especially in relation to the <em>Charter</em>.  There are few law students, lawyers, or civil rights advocates that would state otherwise.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Lord of the Rings as Property Law by Travels and Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2008/03/29/lord-of-the-rings-as-property-law/#comment-1513</link>
		<dc:creator>Travels and Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 02:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/2008/03/29/lord-of-the-rings-as-property-law/#comment-1513</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] A Year Ago, This Week, 2007      &#160;      Saturday 29 March 2008    Saturday - finished a few things, not as much as hoped. So it goes. No lawn mowing.  I did meet up with some friends, by happenstance in the Von's parking lot and we went out to dinner together.This after doing some work on their PC, replacing a CMOS battery and attempting and then abandoning a try at extending a FAT32 partition. I had forgotten about the old 2GB limit after years of using NTFS. Ugh. But we got their new external USB drive working and offloaded some personal data onto that.Poor Phoebe - they brought their children over to the house, an infant and a two year old. Traumatized, he hid out for hours - I had to hunt for him later in the evening just to make sure he hadn't escaped outside or something. He didn't even join me at bedtime, but came to visit some time after midnight. Well, there's another night and then I have to head off to work again. Book #11 was the final book in Kage Baker's Company series, The Sons of Heaven. Umm. Sort of a disappointment, like a lot of authors the finale and wrap up doesn't quite live up to the earlier books.  Lord of the Rings as Property Law.&#160; [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://lawiscool.com/wp-content/plugins/kramer/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[&#8230;] A Year Ago, This Week, 2007      &nbsp;      Saturday 29 March 2008    Saturday - finished a few things, not as much as hoped. So it goes. No lawn mowing.  I did meet up with some friends, by happenstance in the Von&#8217;s parking lot and we went out to dinner together.This after doing some work on their PC, replacing a CMOS battery and attempting and then abandoning a try at extending a FAT32 partition. I had forgotten about the old 2GB limit after years of using NTFS. Ugh. But we got their new external USB drive working and offloaded some personal data onto that.Poor Phoebe - they brought their children over to the house, an infant and a two year old. Traumatized, he hid out for hours - I had to hunt for him later in the evening just to make sure he hadn&#8217;t escaped outside or something. He didn&#8217;t even join me at bedtime, but came to visit some time after midnight. Well, there&#8217;s another night and then I have to head off to work again. Book #11 was the final book in Kage Baker&#8217;s Company series, The Sons of Heaven. Umm. Sort of a disappointment, like a lot of authors the finale and wrap up doesn&#8217;t quite live up to the earlier books.  Lord of the Rings as Property Law.&nbsp; [&#8230;]</p>
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