Comments on: Don’t ask, don’t think: The problem with schools in Muslim countries http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/?nucrss=1 The law school blog and podcast from Canada Wed, 08 Feb 2012 00:00:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Soroush Seifi http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/comment-page-1/#comment-9056 Soroush Seifi Sat, 19 Jun 2010 19:15:44 +0000 http://lawiscool.com/?p=2333#comment-9056 Originally when I had written this article, it was much longer and more specific talking about standardization of schools from a historical point of view that sucked out all room for critical thinking and creativity in learning. There was referrals to a bunch of good book as well like "what happened to us" by Dr. Zibakalam. Unfortunately, the Toronto Star editor changed this article, it's name, and took out much of the specifics leaving in my personal experiences only and creating a really generalized title that can be misleading indeed. Read it for what it is: a personal experience that may differ person to person. Originally when I had written this article, it was much longer and more specific talking about standardization of schools from a historical point of view that sucked out all room for critical thinking and creativity in learning. There was referrals to a bunch of good book as well like “what happened to us” by Dr. Zibakalam.

Unfortunately, the Toronto Star editor changed this article, it’s name, and took out much of the specifics leaving in my personal experiences only and creating a really generalized title that can be misleading indeed.

Read it for what it is: a personal experience that may differ person to person.

]]> By: Andy http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/comment-page-1/#comment-8663 Andy Sat, 08 May 2010 00:50:31 +0000 http://lawiscool.com/?p=2333#comment-8663 (cont'd) I thought it was funny that one person commented and said that this post was "lacking in sources." Seriously? What is the required amount of sources one needs while giving a PERSONAL account of ones experience? True, the article's title makes it appear like all of Middle Eastern schools have this problem, but when one reads it, it is clear that it is his personal experience. So let's read it for what is is and not throw it out because he did not cite. If one thinks this is isolated than one should educate themselves further to see if this is the case and draw their own conclusions. Yes there are American schools throughout the Middle East who may not be indoctrinating their students with hate but there are those who do. Calling attention to those American schools doesn't do anything to address that issue which is where the problem lies. (cont’d)

I thought it was funny that one person commented and said that this post was “lacking in sources.” Seriously? What is the required amount of sources one needs while giving a PERSONAL account of ones experience? True, the article’s title makes it appear like all of Middle Eastern schools have this problem, but when one reads it, it is clear that it is his personal experience. So let’s read it for what is is and not throw it out because he did not cite. If one thinks this is isolated than one should educate themselves further to see if this is the case and draw their own conclusions. Yes there are American schools throughout the Middle East who may not be indoctrinating their students with hate but there are those who do. Calling attention to those American schools doesn’t do anything to address that issue which is where the problem lies.

]]> By: Andy http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/comment-page-1/#comment-8662 Andy Sat, 08 May 2010 00:29:20 +0000 http://lawiscool.com/?p=2333#comment-8662 Why is one person giving his point of view such a problem? If that is his experience that is his experience. "Polemical?" that is so laughable.Other people have talked about their experiences with education in the Middle East(Nonie Darwish, Brigette Gabriel). Do people think US pressure for Saudi Arabia to reform their textbooks to be "polemical" or "isolated." To say that the type of hate-filled education certain populations in the Middle East are exposed to as "isolated" is just indicative of how little people pay attention to world news or pick up a book. Should we just ignore the teaching of intolerance and support for terrosits groups because it is not politically correct or "polemical..?" when someone brings attention to this fact? Why is one person giving his point of view such a problem? If that is his experience that is his experience. “Polemical?” that is so laughable.Other people have talked about their experiences with education in the Middle East(Nonie Darwish, Brigette Gabriel). Do people think US pressure for Saudi Arabia to reform their textbooks to be “polemical” or “isolated.” To say that the type of hate-filled education certain populations in the Middle East are exposed to as “isolated” is just indicative of how little people pay attention to world news or pick up a book.
Should we just ignore the teaching of intolerance and support for terrosits groups because it is not politically correct or “polemical..?” when someone brings attention to this fact?

]]> By: Umair http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/comment-page-1/#comment-7880 Umair Sat, 02 Jan 2010 01:48:10 +0000 http://lawiscool.com/?p=2333#comment-7880 This article is both misleading and lacks sources of any sort. This individual is speaking from his own point of view of life in the Islamic Republic of Iran. What the writer forgets to mention or was unaware of was the fact that Saudi has many American and British schools where students must go to. If you are not a Saudi citizen, which is most of the population, one must attain education in these schools. These schools teach the GCSE system which is standardized in Britain and do not get the type of education that the writer discusses. But I could also give an example of how life in Pakistan was great for me, but that does not help the situation, the facts still remain that the Middle East is oppressed and until the West backs these nations monetarily this will not end. There is nothing 'Muslim' about these nations it is about time that these countries are no longer generalized. As for the writer's perspective on the education system in Canada is borderline fairy tale, it seems that the writer has forgotten that stereotypes are still rampant in this society, and that this great educational system still gives an orientalist historical perspective of the 'other.' This article is both misleading and lacks sources of any sort. This individual is speaking from his own point of view of life in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

What the writer forgets to mention or was unaware of was the fact that Saudi has many American and British schools where students must go to. If you are not a Saudi citizen, which is most of the population, one must attain education in these schools. These schools teach the GCSE system which is standardized in Britain and do not get the type of education that the writer discusses.

But I could also give an example of how life in Pakistan was great for me, but that does not help the situation, the facts still remain that the Middle East is oppressed and until the West backs these nations monetarily this will not end.

There is nothing ‘Muslim’ about these nations it is about time that these countries are no longer generalized.

As for the writer’s perspective on the education system in Canada is borderline fairy tale, it seems that the writer has forgotten that stereotypes are still rampant in this society, and that this great educational system still gives an orientalist historical perspective of the ‘other.’

]]> By: Fakirs Canada http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/comment-page-1/#comment-7858 Fakirs Canada Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:51:30 +0000 http://lawiscool.com/?p=2333#comment-7858 I found this article to be thoughtful and interesting - not polemical. However, I get the sense from my readings, from the news, and from my experience with sites like YouTube, that the most dangerous Qaeda recruitment centers are in Europe and Pakistan - and not among the 'poor' either. I found this article to be thoughtful and interesting – not polemical. However, I get the sense from my readings, from the news, and from my experience with sites like YouTube, that the most dangerous Qaeda recruitment centers are in Europe and Pakistan – and not among the ‘poor’ either.

]]> By: Critical http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/comment-page-1/#comment-7840 Critical Fri, 25 Dec 2009 06:35:32 +0000 http://lawiscool.com/?p=2333#comment-7840 Out of place and too polemical. What's up with this Law is Cool? <hr> Law is Cool: It's a guest post, and we like to mix it up a bit. We got an assortment of reactions and responses, which is always a good thing. Out of place and too polemical. What’s up with this Law is Cool?

Law is Cool: It’s a guest post, and we like to mix it up a bit. We got an assortment of reactions and responses, which is always a good thing.

]]> By: KC http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/comment-page-1/#comment-7830 KC Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:27:22 +0000 http://lawiscool.com/?p=2333#comment-7830 What is a "Muslim country"? I hate this business of defining a country by the majority religion in the area. What is a “Muslim country”? I hate this business of defining a country by the majority religion in the area.

]]> By: SunnyP http://lawiscool.com/2009/12/21/dont-ask-dont-think-the-problem-with-schools-in-muslim-countries/comment-page-1/#comment-7829 SunnyP Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:54:38 +0000 http://lawiscool.com/?p=2333#comment-7829 "The ruins of Ground Zero are proof that we no longer live in an isolated box." - I still don't understand why people make this claim. Only the extremely ignorant (in the truest sense of the term) would make this claim, as if you had looked at the world before 2001, and after you'd find that not much had changed, except that the West finally felt what every other nation in the world had felt before us. If we had been living in an isolated box, then a handful of men with box-cutters wouldn't have been able to shake our very foundations. Westerners just hadn't been exposed to the nasty, brutish world prior to the 2001 (minus of course embassy bombings, Oklahoma city, naval bombings, and a host of other attacks.) Also, your title "The problem with schools in Muslim countries" is ridiculously misleading. Here's a list of the most populous "Muslim countries" (I'm assuming you're using this phrase to discuss countries with muslim populations...) Indonesia (most populous "Muslim country") Pakistan India Bangladesh Egypt Nigeria Iran Turkey Algeria Iraq Morocco Saudi Arabi Sudan Afghanistan Ethiopia Uzbekistan Yemen China Syria It's "articles" like these that help contribute to an ignorant world view, and an ingnorant view of Islam(and I could not care less about god or religion), and Muslims. You talk about isolated experiences in one school in one country and yet brand the article in such a way that an uneducated person would likely come away with a much different view of Muslims, Islam, and the education system in "Muslim countries" than they had going in. You do this with very little evidence, very weak aruments, and very misleading comments. “The ruins of Ground Zero are proof that we no longer live in an isolated box.” – I still don’t understand why people make this claim. Only the extremely ignorant (in the truest sense of the term) would make this claim, as if you had looked at the world before 2001, and after you’d find that not much had changed, except that the West finally felt what every other nation in the world had felt before us. If we had been living in an isolated box, then a handful of men with box-cutters wouldn’t have been able to shake our very foundations.
Westerners just hadn’t been exposed to the nasty, brutish world prior to the 2001 (minus of course embassy bombings, Oklahoma city, naval bombings, and a host of other attacks.)

Also, your title “The problem with schools in Muslim countries” is ridiculously misleading. Here’s a list of the most populous “Muslim countries” (I’m assuming you’re using this phrase to discuss countries with muslim populations…)

Indonesia (most populous “Muslim country”)
Pakistan
India
Bangladesh
Egypt
Nigeria
Iran
Turkey
Algeria
Iraq
Morocco
Saudi Arabi
Sudan
Afghanistan
Ethiopia
Uzbekistan
Yemen
China
Syria

It’s “articles” like these that help contribute to an ignorant world view, and an ingnorant view of Islam(and I could not care less about god or religion), and Muslims.

You talk about isolated experiences in one school in one country and yet brand the article in such a way that an uneducated person would likely come away with a much different view of Muslims, Islam, and the education system in “Muslim countries” than they had going in. You do this with very little evidence, very weak aruments, and very misleading comments.

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