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	<title>Comments on: David Chen:  Vigilante or Local Hero?</title>
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		<title>By: Terry Disterheft</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9752</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Disterheft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9752</guid>
		<description>Dear Everyone,
I am intrigued by this case and the articles I have been reading about this case.  
I am considering using this approach to a long standing outstanding payment that has been due to my company for over 8 years.  I have been chasing, inquiring, requesting, and advising myself for the past 6 months on how to finally get payment for my product from a Charity that failed to pay for the shipping charges, failed to pay for the product, failed to issue a tax receipt, and will not even come forward to address this matter so that a settlement can be reached.  And I believe many people are involved in the cover-up as it is for a sum that is in the millions of dollars.  
Would anyone like to comment on whether I could use this means to finally arrest these fraudsters and finally get my money.  Is this the best way to get them to realize I mean to get my money back and it was not a donation to a bunch of freeloaders to steal and live high off the hog.

Your sincere comments please,
Terry Disterheft</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Everyone,<br />
I am intrigued by this case and the articles I have been reading about this case.<br />
I am considering using this approach to a long standing outstanding payment that has been due to my company for over 8 years.  I have been chasing, inquiring, requesting, and advising myself for the past 6 months on how to finally get payment for my product from a Charity that failed to pay for the shipping charges, failed to pay for the product, failed to issue a tax receipt, and will not even come forward to address this matter so that a settlement can be reached.  And I believe many people are involved in the cover-up as it is for a sum that is in the millions of dollars.<br />
Would anyone like to comment on whether I could use this means to finally arrest these fraudsters and finally get my money.  Is this the best way to get them to realize I mean to get my money back and it was not a donation to a bunch of freeloaders to steal and live high off the hog.</p>
<p>Your sincere comments please,<br />
Terry Disterheft</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Hyne</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9741</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Hyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9741</guid>
		<description>■Carmen Wallace on January 4th, 2010 6:19 pm 

If you stop and hold someone you are arresting them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>■Carmen Wallace on January 4th, 2010 6:19 pm </p>
<p>If you stop and hold someone you are arresting them.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Hyne</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9740</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Hyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9740</guid>
		<description>As a security professional in British Columbia, I am of the personal opinion that section 494 of the criminal codes needs to be amended to permit property owners and their agents to arrest without warrant those that have escape the lawful process of arrest for an indictable crime.

The whole idea of David Chen perusing, arresting and imprisoning the subject is no different from a LPO for perusing a subject past the entrance door, stopping and then placing them in a room or caged area in the security office.

The ONLY difference is that CHEN&#039;s actions were after the fact and that he had reasonable grounds to believe based on history that the subject was going to commit a crime.

The onus is on the property owner or their agent to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the arrest is legit and there are both criminal and civil remedies available for wrongful arrest.

The only caveat I would place here is that security companies provide better training in law before their wannabe cops/guards go around arresting little old ladies.

In British Columbia security personnel can undergo additional training in the Use Of Force and become licensed to use specific handcuffs for securing subjects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a security professional in British Columbia, I am of the personal opinion that section 494 of the criminal codes needs to be amended to permit property owners and their agents to arrest without warrant those that have escape the lawful process of arrest for an indictable crime.</p>
<p>The whole idea of David Chen perusing, arresting and imprisoning the subject is no different from a LPO for perusing a subject past the entrance door, stopping and then placing them in a room or caged area in the security office.</p>
<p>The ONLY difference is that CHEN&#8217;s actions were after the fact and that he had reasonable grounds to believe based on history that the subject was going to commit a crime.</p>
<p>The onus is on the property owner or their agent to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the arrest is legit and there are both criminal and civil remedies available for wrongful arrest.</p>
<p>The only caveat I would place here is that security companies provide better training in law before their wannabe cops/guards go around arresting little old ladies.</p>
<p>In British Columbia security personnel can undergo additional training in the Use Of Force and become licensed to use specific handcuffs for securing subjects.</p>
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		<title>By: DM</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9733</link>
		<dc:creator>DM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 05:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9733</guid>
		<description>Avoiding the discussion of whether or not Chen&#039;s actions are justified- Do you really think that this falls under s.494(1)(b)(ii)? Chen didn&#039;t &quot;pursue&quot; Benett. Bennet wasn&#039;t &quot;escaping from&quot; Chen when he returned to the store. Even if Chen had pursued him, he wouldn&#039;t have pursued him for an hour. And even If he had pursued him for an hour, I think that at some point the pursuit would have lost it&#039;s &quot;fresh&quot;-ness. 

I don&#039;t actually think that Chen has any right to a citizens arrest under s.494(1)- I would argue that because of the language of s.494, and parliaments deliberate decision in s.494(1) (a) only to include indictable offenses- not summary and not hybrid- Chen should not have any rights to a citizens arrest under s.494. 

I know that hybrid offenses are deemed for the purpose of s.494 to be indictable (R v. Huff). But in that case the individual being placed under citizens arrest was being arrested for dangerous driving; which is much closer to the borderline between summary/hybird. (Not to mention being placed under arrest by a police officer from a different jurisdiction)

 I don&#039;t know the circumstances of how Bennet ended up with jail time on these facts- but as you mentioned 30 days is a shockingly harsh sentence for a $60 theft. But this is still only a fraction (just under 1/12th) of the maximum penalty for a summary conviction (as laid out by CC s.787(1)). In a case where the crime is so clearly a summary offense, it is hard to believe that parliament&#039;s intention was to give a citizen the right to arrest another citizen committing petty theft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avoiding the discussion of whether or not Chen&#8217;s actions are justified- Do you really think that this falls under s.494(1)(b)(ii)? Chen didn&#8217;t &#8220;pursue&#8221; Benett. Bennet wasn&#8217;t &#8220;escaping from&#8221; Chen when he returned to the store. Even if Chen had pursued him, he wouldn&#8217;t have pursued him for an hour. And even If he had pursued him for an hour, I think that at some point the pursuit would have lost it&#8217;s &#8220;fresh&#8221;-ness. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t actually think that Chen has any right to a citizens arrest under s.494(1)- I would argue that because of the language of s.494, and parliaments deliberate decision in s.494(1) (a) only to include indictable offenses- not summary and not hybrid- Chen should not have any rights to a citizens arrest under s.494. </p>
<p>I know that hybrid offenses are deemed for the purpose of s.494 to be indictable (R v. Huff). But in that case the individual being placed under citizens arrest was being arrested for dangerous driving; which is much closer to the borderline between summary/hybird. (Not to mention being placed under arrest by a police officer from a different jurisdiction)</p>
<p> I don&#8217;t know the circumstances of how Bennet ended up with jail time on these facts- but as you mentioned 30 days is a shockingly harsh sentence for a $60 theft. But this is still only a fraction (just under 1/12th) of the maximum penalty for a summary conviction (as laid out by CC s.787(1)). In a case where the crime is so clearly a summary offense, it is hard to believe that parliament&#8217;s intention was to give a citizen the right to arrest another citizen committing petty theft.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9725</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9725</guid>
		<description>I nearly know nothing about law, but I think the law is to protect fairness and justice.

I think the CROWN is silly in the way it interpret the law. First, David Chen catching the thief is not the same as person A catching person B on the street for no reason. Second, the catching is the continuing part of stopping theft in the store. If David Chen has right to stop the thief from his store, he should have the right to chase him when the thief refuses to stay in store waiting for police officers come to the site, and David chen should have the right to hold the thief&#039;s arm if the thief refuses to wait for police officers come to handle the case. 

Someone may argue that the thief has human right. Yes, he has his right, but when his right violeted other people&#039;s right, the thief&#039;s should lost  part of his right. He stole other people&#039;s porperties, then he should lost part of his freedom right and remain in the site till police officer come to handle. If he runs away, he should lost part of his right and should allow others to hold his arms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I nearly know nothing about law, but I think the law is to protect fairness and justice.</p>
<p>I think the CROWN is silly in the way it interpret the law. First, David Chen catching the thief is not the same as person A catching person B on the street for no reason. Second, the catching is the continuing part of stopping theft in the store. If David Chen has right to stop the thief from his store, he should have the right to chase him when the thief refuses to stay in store waiting for police officers come to the site, and David chen should have the right to hold the thief&#8217;s arm if the thief refuses to wait for police officers come to handle the case. </p>
<p>Someone may argue that the thief has human right. Yes, he has his right, but when his right violeted other people&#8217;s right, the thief&#8217;s should lost  part of his right. He stole other people&#8217;s porperties, then he should lost part of his freedom right and remain in the site till police officer come to handle. If he runs away, he should lost part of his right and should allow others to hold his arms.</p>
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		<title>By: David Langer</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9650</link>
		<dc:creator>David Langer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2010 16:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9650</guid>
		<description>What about Chi-Kun Shi&#039;s apparent comments outside of the courthouse to the media (National Post), &quot;I wish the court would run as well as David and his store .. Maybe he should come and run the justice system.The system is broken&quot;. Chi-Kun Shi is an Ontario lawyer, and works in the same office as Chen&#039;s defence lawyer. In fact, she&#039;s committee member of his activist group, vracommittee.com , and personally replies to queries regarding donations to his legal expenses (which, according to Shi, should be sent in by cheques made out to Peter Lindsay in Trust) In other words, she&#039;s also counsel to Chen. And the trial was far from over. As well, of all the cases I&#039;ve ever noted in Toronto&#039;s courts, this one seems to be the most distorted by the media, especially The Toronto Sun, who, for example, asked &quot;The longer the trial of Chinatown’s “vigilante grocer” David Chen proceeds, the more people are asking what was the poor guy supposed to do?&quot;. Poor? Chen testified that he makes $35K a year, but didn&#039;t mention his numbered company or its properties (at least, I didn&#039;t hear about them at the trial). 
Here are some of my findings: 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/39067108/Poor-Chinatown-Millionaire-Vigilante-David-Chen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about Chi-Kun Shi&#8217;s apparent comments outside of the courthouse to the media (National Post), &#8220;I wish the court would run as well as David and his store .. Maybe he should come and run the justice system.The system is broken&#8221;. Chi-Kun Shi is an Ontario lawyer, and works in the same office as Chen&#8217;s defence lawyer. In fact, she&#8217;s committee member of his activist group, vracommittee.com , and personally replies to queries regarding donations to his legal expenses (which, according to Shi, should be sent in by cheques made out to Peter Lindsay in Trust) In other words, she&#8217;s also counsel to Chen. And the trial was far from over. As well, of all the cases I&#8217;ve ever noted in Toronto&#8217;s courts, this one seems to be the most distorted by the media, especially The Toronto Sun, who, for example, asked &#8220;The longer the trial of Chinatown’s “vigilante grocer” David Chen proceeds, the more people are asking what was the poor guy supposed to do?&#8221;. Poor? Chen testified that he makes $35K a year, but didn&#8217;t mention his numbered company or its properties (at least, I didn&#8217;t hear about them at the trial).<br />
Here are some of my findings:<br />
<a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/39067108/Poor-Chinatown-Millionaire-Vigilante-David-Chen" rel="nofollow">http://www.scribd.com/doc/39067108/Poor-Chinatown-Millionaire-Vigilante-David-Chen</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alyce Langford</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9637</link>
		<dc:creator>Alyce Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Oct 2010 21:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9637</guid>
		<description>I certainly hope that all the charges against David Chen and his associates are dropped.  If they aren&#039;t I will lose what little faith I have remaining in the Canadian justice system. If charges against Mr Chen aren&#039;t dropped we may all just as well leave our doors wide open with a big sign saying &quot;come in, take what you want.&quot;  For that matter, if it weren&#039;t for my own personal ethics, I may as well go into any store I feel like and help myself and leave without paying.  I just don&#039;t understand why our justice system bends over backwards to protect the rights of the criminal while vilifying the victim.  God help us all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly hope that all the charges against David Chen and his associates are dropped.  If they aren&#8217;t I will lose what little faith I have remaining in the Canadian justice system. If charges against Mr Chen aren&#8217;t dropped we may all just as well leave our doors wide open with a big sign saying &#8220;come in, take what you want.&#8221;  For that matter, if it weren&#8217;t for my own personal ethics, I may as well go into any store I feel like and help myself and leave without paying.  I just don&#8217;t understand why our justice system bends over backwards to protect the rights of the criminal while vilifying the victim.  God help us all.</p>
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		<title>By: jannushka e. jakoubovitch</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9622</link>
		<dc:creator>jannushka e. jakoubovitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 00:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9622</guid>
		<description>I just said what I had to say to support David Chen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just said what I had to say to support David Chen.</p>
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		<title>By: jannushka e. jakoubovitch</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9621</link>
		<dc:creator>jannushka e. jakoubovitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 00:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9621</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m &#039;appalled&#039;.  David Chen is a hard-working-person who tries to make a living.  Those horrible criminals have - the support of the law -He was just, with a lot of courage, trying to catch that criminal who&#039;ll do again and again as he&#039;s so much supported by the law.  Please, leave David Chen alone.  He&#039;s a &#039;hero&#039; to me.  I&#039;m sick and tired to see what&#039;s happening in my country, Canada, jannushka</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m &#8216;appalled&#8217;.  David Chen is a hard-working-person who tries to make a living.  Those horrible criminals have &#8211; the support of the law -He was just, with a lot of courage, trying to catch that criminal who&#8217;ll do again and again as he&#8217;s so much supported by the law.  Please, leave David Chen alone.  He&#8217;s a &#8216;hero&#8217; to me.  I&#8217;m sick and tired to see what&#8217;s happening in my country, Canada, jannushka</p>
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		<title>By: Don Kaminski</title>
		<link>http://lawiscool.com/2009/10/23/david-chen-vigilante-or-local-hero/comment-page-1/#comment-9603</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Kaminski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 03:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawiscool.com/?p=2157#comment-9603</guid>
		<description>Chen is a hero
If he SHOT and KILLED the thief here in Texas no one would dare take him to court or even raise an eyebrow..... he would be treated as the hero he is! The thief would have taken his chances and lost and too damn bad-- justic eserved!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chen is a hero<br />
If he SHOT and KILLED the thief here in Texas no one would dare take him to court or even raise an eyebrow&#8230;.. he would be treated as the hero he is! The thief would have taken his chances and lost and too damn bad&#8211; justic eserved!</p>
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